This course will give you the growth skills, knowledge, processes, and frameworks to confidently build and grow a product-led business.
In just six weeks, you'll be able to:
Wes Bush:
Well, thank you, everyone for trying out meat butter. It was one of those tools that we had met the founders with. They're all like gung-ho about workshops and I really do love the tool. I think we just broke it. So thank you for putting up with that. We had this worst-case scenario like, "Okay, we've got the Zoom room ready to go." So I appreciate you doing with that with us. So the next thing, if you haven't done it yet, please just let us know in the Miro board where you're all located from. I see a ton of you in Miro which is awesome to see. And what we're going to do pretty quickly is just go through the agenda where you're going to expect throughout the program. And then that is where we're going to be focused on.
Wes Bush:
So I'll share my screen so we can all be on the same page for this part. Can everyone just give me the thumbs up in the chats or just say yes if you can hear, see everything? Okay. I know it looks like a mess right now in Miro is so many people. This is exciting. I love it. All right, so I'm getting some yeses here. Good, good. Glad everyone see. Okay. So one of the things that's... We're just going to go through right at the beginning here is just a little bit about both myself and Ramli. So you can learn about who we are before we really get into the nitty-gritty of this program. So I'm going to start with my story. So I fell into the world product. At least it feels that way. One of the things that really got me into this world of product was... We launched this free product at company called Vidyard in Canada.
Wes Bush:
And it grew really, really quickly. We got a hundred thousands of users and it immediately showed me that the product isn't just something you sell. It's how you serve people, it's how you help people and from then on, I've just started doing a lot of consulting and helping these companies figure out how do you use your product as a growth engine for your business. And it's something that honestly gets me excited. I love this topic and what I hope to help you identify at least throughout this program is what you can do with your product to really help more people learn about your product and get value from it. And so Ramli, did you want to just go through a little bit about your background as well before we kick things off?
Ramli John:
Yes, sure. I mean, okay. My name is Ramli John. My background is also in marketing as well. And one of my challenges in the past was, I would work for companies and try to get leads and users to their app, and then realize very quickly looking at the data that a lot of it data ended up sticking around. And that got me into Product-Led Growth in really using your product to not just acquire users, but need them and activate them and retain them. Now I host a Product-Led Growth Podcast with Wes as well as writing a new book that's coming out of June 3rd called Eureka which is all about onboarding.
Wes Bush:
Awesome. And so, one of the things that's we're going to be covering today is just, well, first off I know we had a bit of a hiccup on the orientation. Thanks for pasting us that. Ramli what does your Zoom link post-it note.
Speaker 3:
There's still a lot of people over the other ones so...
Ramli John:
Yeah, I'm trying to get them to switch over so...
Speaker 3:
Great.
Ramli John:
I'm in Butter right now trying to get them to switching to Zoom. Yeah.
Wes Bush:
Yeah. Whoever created that post-it note with the big Zoom link. Brilliant. Awesome. Okay. So for the first bit of this, we're going to cover a quick little section on what is Product-Led Growth? So we're all on the same page here. And then we're also going to cover what are some of the things that's... Or reasons why companies are making the shift to Product-Led Growth? So we're going to get some clarity on that. You're also going to have a chance to do breakout sessions with each other. So you're going to get a chance to meet each other as far as you go through this program. And at the end too, I'm going to give you a bit of a briefer on what we're going to cover in the next five weeks and covering some of the challenges are Browns, Product-Led Growth. Then there's going to be one more breakout room at the end.
Wes Bush:
And then we're going to wrap up and have specific questions, and QA that you can go through, and just ask us anything you have to do with Product-Led Growth. We're happy to go through that end outwardly. Want to just go through the orientation?
Ramli John:
Sure. Yeah. So if you can just zoom right in and thank you for having this. Okay. I guess I'm just going to... Do you mind leading this Wes with a screen? But I can talk.
Wes Bush:
Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 3:
Let's see your mic, please.
Ramli John:
There it is. Just move the mic over [inaudible 00:05:01] if you could scroll down. Sorry. What was that? Yep. You're good. Yeah. Let me close down Butter. Or if you want, I can just cover this part too.
Wes Bush:
Sure, please. Thank you.
Ramli John:
Yeah, no worries.
Wes Bush:
So yeah, for the orientation, one of the things that we're really big on as far as going through this program is we want to make this fun. And I know that it's a little tech hiccup. It doesn't seem fun, but we were really trying to push the needle on our workshops. So we will continue to try new things and really make sure that at the end of the day, one of the big things that we're changing up for this cohort is it's not going to be these lectures where we just go through all the contents and then you're just kind of left there, taking notes. We don't think that's really that much fun. That practical as far as learning what product growth is all about. So it's going to be super engaging. We encourage you to engage with each other, encourage you to in the chat as well.
Wes Bush:
Send us your questions. We want to answer these as best as we can. So there is going to be reactions post, chat boxes engage as much as you can. And one of the things to be prepared for, for each line live lesson, is that's we're going to have these breakout rooms. It's going to be engaging. You're going to learn and chat with a lot of each other in this group. So whenever you show up, just make sure you're ready to hop on a call and actually talk and engage with other students ends. The other thing too, is that make sure you've gone ahead and done some other required videos and readings ahead of time. So every Friday, Ramli is going to be sending you just a quick overview on what is the talks that are due for that particular week and what we encourage you to do to, to get the most out of this, is just go ahead and take those talks first and watch them through for the on-demand contents.
Wes Bush:
And I can even show you what this will look like, or actually it's in Miro so I don't even have to do that part. If you scroll down below here, if you are in the Product-Led Growth dashboard, you'll just click the April, 2021 Product-Led Growth overview. And what I'm referring to is the on-demand session here. If you could just finish whatever the on-demand session is before you get on the live calls, what that's going to allow you to do is really just come to those calls prepared, you've already know a lot of the groundwork, a lot of the strategy. So you can just show up and have a much better educated discussion around what it is that you're trying to move the needle on in your business. The other thing I wanted to mention here too, is that we have this privates Product-Led Growth Slack channel.
Wes Bush:
And so if you're in it, I was going through it this morning and loving, seeing all of everyone just kind of going in, sharing a little bit about themselves, what they're hoping to get out of this program. So continue to do that. But this is really an amazing space where if you have specific questions about anything, if it's more general around your product, that growth journey, feel free to put it in here and get your colleagues feedback on that. Because although you could go to Ramli and myself, and we're happy to answer whatever questions you have, there's something to be said about a variety of responses. When you're at different stages, you're going to hear different stories and is ultimately going to be... Hopefully more helpful getting that variety of response. So that's what I would really recommend you to do when you do have a first question.
Wes Bush:
The other thing too, is we do... If you go to the dashboard, you're going to have access to what we call a direct consulting line and so I would typically reserve this for... Let's say, I'll give you a scenario. So you have something really specific. And let's say even you're a public company and you're just like, "I can't share this. I love to share this in the Slack group but I can't." All right. So just go to the direct consulting line, let us know. There could also be really specific things where maybe it's just specific to your business. Like, "Wes, I don't understand how to make that particular thing work because X, X reason it doesn't really make sense." Or something like that. So just let us know. We're going to go through that, try and get back to you as soon as possible, because this isn't just one of those courses where it's a bunch of on-demand videos and we're like, "Okay, we'll leave you to it."
Wes Bush:
We are here to support you and help you out as best as we can. That's really what gets us excited. So the next part here I wanted to cover real quick is just what the heck is Product-Led Growth? Obviously you signed up for this program, you have some idea of what it is but I want to hear what everyone here thinks Product-Led Growth is. So in the chat, let me know what you believe Product-Led Growth is. And give me what you think your best definition is. I want to hear from everyone what they think it is.
Wes Bush:
All right. So let's see.
Wes Bush:
If anyone could jump in first, that'd be awesome. Use your product as a channel to cross and upsell. Yes, that is an awesome one. Thank you for jumping in there, Jeff. [inaudible 00:10:35] end user focused growth model that relies on the product itself as the primary driver of customer acquisition, conversion and expansion. All right. So we also have... Let's see, from Laurie. Moved from SQL to PQL. Yes. That's definitely going to be something we're going to be touching on. Victoria. Go to market strategy. Yes. And Leon, yes. GGM Shadier as well. Sam. It's going so quick, the responses, I'm trying to scroll up and see it again. This is awesome. All right. So Kate, the product does the talking to makes the self-service sales. Yes. Michelle. Building products that address customer needs. Yes. Kristin. Product-driven sales, let the product do the selling.
Wes Bush:
You betcha. All right. SAS pricing models. Interesting. Okay. And then for HOD, use product to sell itself. Amazing. So first off, to everyone who went in the chat, shared what they thought product growth is all about, thank you. We are going to be doing a lot more of these questions and I love the energy. I love how many of you are taking the time to share what it is that you think Product-Led Growth is all about so thank you. Now, what I'm going to do is just quickly go through our own definition so we're on the same page, because a lot of what you've mentioned kind of covers the basis of what this is all about. So the first thing is, when we think about Product-Led Growth, a lot of people think it's this totally new thing. And one of the first things, I always point out I'm like, "Ashley is not."
Wes Bush:
Product-Led Growth has been around for so long is just becoming a lot more apparent in the SAS and B2B SaaS space where people are thinking, "Oh, we could make this work for our specific business." So you think cologne, cars, shoes, even at home, how would you typically buy them? And in each of these cases, when you really kind of zoom into it, you think of clone, "Okay, I'm going to try this and smell it, and if I like it, that's going to be great." Same thing for a car. It's like, "Okay, great. I want to give it a test drive and see what this can actually do." And then same thing for shoes. "I want to actually try it on before I buy it." So what's really kind of becoming apparent in these other industries, as well as B2B SaaS for Product-Led Growth, is that your product is actually going to be doing the majority of the selling.
Wes Bush:
That's really what gets us excited here is you're using your product to really help you do the majority of the selling and part of that is made possible because you're letting people try before you buy. That's one of the core tenants of building a ProductLed business. You really need to allow people to try before they buy and make a good use of it, the product, before they sign up for the paywall. And so it really comes down to this. What we're going to cover in this course is the difference between how you sell. We're going to argue is just as important as what you sell at the end of the day. And so when we think about why is Product-Led Growth all of a sudden booming and lots of people are talking about it? And I think part of it is the fact that well, consumers trust brands less.
Wes Bush:
And I think part of that is because... When you think about it, anyone can create a website these days, anyone can write a bit of copy and now proclaim that they have like this pill that will, if you take it, it'll make you grow five feet taller in five minutes or something silly like that. So we've been burned in the past with some of the products that we've bought. So what's really important for us to realize is that even if you did go through the more traditional sales process or sales lead, go to market strategy and hired this world-class sales team to tell people what your product could do, people will always be thinking at the end of the day, can this product actually deliver on its promise? And so, in my work, back in the good old days... But today, you really have this choice of what do you lead with whenever you're thinking about selling a product. Are you really just focusing on showcasing your value, showing people what your product can do?
Wes Bush:
Or are you just going to tell people what it's all about? And now there's always going to be a balance. You're still going to have to tell people about your product. I'm not saying create this website with zero copy, and it's just free trial sign up. That of course wouldn't work. You know that. So there's a balance here, but it's what you lead with. Are you leading with showcasing people? What your product can do? How quickly can they get the value within that product? Or are you just simply telling them about it?
Wes Bush:
So my question to you is in the chat. Which strategy do you think is more effective? Is leading more into showing the value of your products going to be more effective? Or is it going to be simply telling people about it? So, if you're on team show, let me know, press one. If you're on team tell, just people about your products, press two. All right. So I'm seeing lots of ones, no controversial twos. Awesome. That's good to see so far, lots of ones, lots of ones with exclamation marks. Yes, absolutely. The best storytelling is when you show not tell. Amazing. All right, so Ramli's just going to do a quick poll and this is interesting. So does having a free account or free trial mean your ProductLed?
Ramli John:
Yeah. Just type one, if you think it's yes. Type two, if you think it's no. Type three of you think is maybe and type four, if you think you don't know. Okay. Seeing a bunch of twos, some threes maybe. Some &. Somebody put an ampersand.
Wes Bush:
Interesting. Okay. So we're seeing a lot of twos. There is some ones, no threes. Or is it... Have you seen the three at Ramli? There's a ton of them.
Ramli John:
No, I haven't seen. I've seen a bunch of two.
Wes Bush:
Okay. Awesome. So I'm so happy to see that a lot of you're already thinking about this ahead, because one of the common misconceptions that we wanted to debunk right away is that just having a free trial or freemium model, doesn't actually mean you're ProductLed. It means you're probably thinking about it, hopefully. But it's really just about how do you serve your users whenever they first sign up. And if you just have, let's say this simple experience where you had a free trial, someone signs up and they weren't able to actually access the value of the product. That is really at the end of the day, not being ProductLed because, "Okay, you're showing the product, but you're not actually helping them access the value of the product." So what we're really kind of recommending here is that to be ProductLed, you really do need to serve people, you need to help them experience the value of your product before they go ahead and pay for the product.
Wes Bush:
So that's awesome. Glad everyone has participated in that part. The only other piece we're going to touch on before we go into our first breakout session is why is your company going ProductLed? And this one' really an important one for you to ask yourself because you're going to have to kind of come up with your own reasons in the breakout room, in the next activity. So when we think about why is your company going ProductLed? I typically narrow it down to two main things. The first one is you're going to have a much more dominant growth engine. If you think of about almost every time, in this class specifically, we have students go from... Let's just say they only had a demo request on their website.
Wes Bush:
And then all of a sudden, they launch a free trial or they launch freemium model or something like that. What they almost always come back to us and say is like, "We have now a 20 to 30% more sign up rate. Why is that happening? It's bonkers." And the part of the reason is because you now have access to a wider top of funnel. People might not have wanted to ever kind of go through and sign up for a demo request, but they are okay signing up for a trial or a freemium account because they're okay to just go through and see what the product is all about and how it can help them. And so this is one of the really big benefits you can have as a ProductLed business. And the other one is really just rapid global scale. When you think about how you could grow a traditional sales company, it involves a lot of salespeople.
Wes Bush:
You have to hire a lot of people. And every time... Let's say you hire someone, let's say that sales rep has a quota of 500K. Okay, great. So you hire one, then you hire two, then you hire three. It's expensive to hire all these people. And then let's say one of them gets promoted, there's a little drop in productivity, potentially. Hopefully not. And it just becomes harder to scale very fast. Whereas if you're a ProductLed business, you could simply be scaling campaigns all across the world and then quickly be able to test out which markets, which campaigns really perform best as they're going through and experiencing the value your product. And that's not to say you won't have sales reps. We are going to debunk that one as well, but it just relies on what do people typically start with in their journey with you?
Wes Bush:
And so I'll give you this example, which is a fun one, was Zoom. So from March 2020, three months later, they went from 10 million to 200 million daily active users in just three months, which is pretty crazy. And so one of the things I did is I looked at that number and said, "Okay wait, 190 million daily active users." Let's imagine that Zoom was completely sales-led. The only way you could go into that product was if you actually had a demo. So if you did that calculation 190 million demos, they basically have to do 2 million demos per day, including weekends to keep the math easy. And for their sales reps, they have to do 16, 30 minute demos every single day of the week. And if they did that, that would mean they would have to have 131,944 salespeople. And so that's a ton of salespeople if you think about it, of how Zoom could ever have scaled that fast.
Wes Bush:
And so when you think about that, "Okay, it comes down to, if you Zoom did do this, they would be charging us a ton of money to use the specific account. But luckily, they're not going ahead and going that route so it really comes down to this concept. If you are planning on just growing through the traditional sales, that path, the more expensive it is for you to sell something. Really just comes down to the more expensive it is to buy that product at the end of the day. And so the big, big benefit you have access to when you are being more ProductLed is compounds versus linear growth. A simple 1% improvement, month over month on your free to paid conversion rate can have a massive impact on how many more people can learn about your product, how many more people can convert from free to paid versus just simply hiring more sales staff as you grow.
Wes Bush:
And so the second moat, I want you to think about as you think about what is your own reason why you're becoming ProductLed or your businesses becoming ProductLed. It really comes down around capital efficiency. And so this is really interesting because ProfitWell did this study a couple years ago, just on the fact that, "You know what? Your customer acquisition cost have increased over 55% in the last five years." But on the other hand, what we've been seeing through some of our students is that there's actually been a significant reduction in their customer acquisition cost. I'll give you an example, actually. So Vendast, there in Saskatoon, Canada, they were initially completely sales-led. And whenever we talk to Jacqueline Cook, their chief strategy officer, their customer acquisition cost were around $13,000 per customer. So it was quite substantial, $13,000 per customer to get them in the door and get them to sign up.
Wes Bush:
And whenever they started going down this ProductLed path, which it did take them a couple of years to be fully transparent. It wasn't an overnight thing. But after that, they lowered their customer acquisition cost to $3,000, which is just a massive amount of savings in their customer acquisition cost that they can now take advantage of. Where do you think they could apply that $10,000 in savings? They could put more of it into their R&D to build a better product, they could put more into marketing and sales, they could also put more of it into just their team as well and invest in their growth. So it's just something that's so interesting that I think a lot of people miss, whenever you think of, "Okay, go ProductLed led. A lot of people think of it from a growth perspective." But it's really about building a sustainable growth machine for your business.
Wes Bush:
And so the other kind of reasons why this lowering of your customer acquisition cost is possible, is because you're hand-holding your users less and you're removing friction from the sales process, and you're also are really doing this because you're building trust so much faster at the end of the day because people are now able to use your product, see what it's all about on their own before they actually have to make that purchase decision. So you're de-risking it really at the end of the day for them and that this all kind of contributes to just having a higher revenue per employee. So the main kind of things that I want you to really think about here is edit these kind of eight main reasons. You may have your own two. What is your main reason why you're becoming ProductLed? And Ramli, did you want to ask the poll?
Ramli John:
Yep. And then just... If you could scroll to the top. Out of that eight or any other ones, just share with the folks, what your primary reason is for your company to go ProductLed. I think if you scroll... Yeah, right there. If you just want to share it in the comments. What is it? Is it a dominant goal growth engine? I see Fred. All right. Then Dan says it's better use experience. And John said it was compound growth. It's all right. Compound growth. Simran. Darlene said compound growth. Mike said one in five. Costas is saying [inaudible 00:25:25]. All right. Adam says all. All right. So, Josh says five compound versus linear growth. Okay. And then we have Sam, is eight, a better use experience. Pershin saying that it is lower acquisition costs. Fraser saying to acquire the top of the funnel. Cool.
Ramli John:
Oh, Paul, who's that? Bret saying all of them, but he listed out all, okay. Right. Yeah. I know we should be using the pull, but we would have to set up a webinar. We'll get that set up next time. Oh yeah. Sorry. But we're just going to do a quick breakout session here. I'm going to just quickly share my screen so that you can see my timer. So what's next here is we're going to do a quick breakout. You're going to get a chance to introduce yourself, why should your company going ProductLed and for fun, identify one city your group has been to. I am going to do this slightly different, and allow people to participate, and choose what room they're in. So if you are... And once again, you're joining a room that's with three to four people. If you are a company that is small, less than 50 employees and has a free trial or free call, you can join a breakout room from one to ten.
Ramli John:
And if you are a company that is a little bit bigger with over 50 employees, you can check out a breakout room from 11 to 20. If you are a company that is less than 50 employees that still say sales treatment or just getting started, you can join a breakout room from one to 30. And if you are over 50 employees and you're still very sales-driven, feel free to join a breakout room from 31 to 40. So you can just... The breakout rooms are now open. Feel free to select a room, find one that's free or find one that has less than three to four people so that we don't go over the time. So I'll just give you 10 minutes to do that.
Wes Bush:
Hello, everyone. Welcome back. I hope you had a great chance to meet your group, meet some cool people. Well, that's one of the things that's we get really, really excited about whenever it comes to these programs is never just about you show up and you have contents. That's one thing that's what gets you here but what I hope to see more and more is that you're building these relationships with people as you're going through the program because there's something to be said about this journey to becoming ProductLed. Most people, it can feel like a more lonely journey where you don't have any peers to really go through it, nothing to fence or just share how do you approach things differently? So I encourage you as far as... Whenever you're on these breakout rooms, don't hesitate.
Wes Bush:
If you have a really good chat or something like that with your group, whether it's sharing your LinkedIn or communicating on, or connecting on the PLG Slack group, make sure you just continue that relationship as you go through this because it's great when you have accountability partner or someone to go through this with you. That's what we want you to walk away. Not just with the content and the learning new stuff but some great connections. That's what we love. So for the last little bit we're going to cover today, I want to just touch on what you can expect for the next five weeks. And the way we've really broken this down is the challenges with being ProductLed. So challenge accepted, as far as that goes, you have all shown up, you're ready for this challenge. So the program is broken down and basically just the next five weeks, every person has a challenge that they're going to face as far as what this looks like for their business.
Wes Bush:
But one of the things we've done is identified the five biggest ones. So the first one is really just about how do you figure out the right product, that model for your business? That one's really difficult, that's challenging. And what does that strategy look like for your business? And the other part is really just, how do you understand what your user wants? And how you really help them experience that value in your particular product? And as you go through that, you're going to realize there's a lot of things that you need to change. Just say in the chat, I think someone isn't on mute. So if someone could just put their selves on mute, if there is some background noise, is super helpful. And so the other thing too, is just making sure that you get buy-in from your team and build that product, that mindset, within your entire company because it's not just the product team and their ProductLed initiative.
Wes Bush:
No, it's everyone is involved. So that's really what you can expect for a week two to six. And then at the end, there is going to be exam but don't get scared by the word exam. I know I do typically gets scared by that word, but it's really just going to be a simple task you go through to realize where are your gaps in, what you know about Product-Led Growth. And that might just mean, "Okay, you got to go back to week two or go back to week three, and go back to those specific lessons. So, that's what I'm really excited to cover with you over the next five weeks together. But what we're going to do now for the next three minutes is really just kind of share what are some of the big challenges that you see as far as becoming ProductLed and thanks for Emily for updating that.
Wes Bush:
And so what I want you to do is in Miro, just share what are these specific challenges that you're worried about that keep you up at night, as far as it relates to becoming ProductLed. And so, if you could just update that in the Miro board, or even if you don't have access to that in Miro, or you can't use Miro, or you have a problem using it, feel free to just let us know in the chat as well. We really want to hear what your biggest challenges are as it relates to this. And we're going to... I'm going to pause for a little bit to let you all think about what that will look like, but I'm excited to see so many faces already sharing their top challenges. So I'll give you a minute and then I'll review some of these together with you.
Wes Bush:
Can you find it okay, Angie?
Angie:
I have it yes, thank you.
Wes Bush:
Awesome. And thank you, Angie for jumping in there and being okay with that. I know some people are sometimes worried about, okay, it is a workshop, can I jump in and go live and ask a question. I really do appreciate that. So if anyone else has questions as they're going through, don't hesitate. We are here to make this as live and interactive as possible. So keep up, at Angie. This is filling up pretty quickly, I love it. All right, I'm just going to start going through some of these. So ensuring we move fast enough in terms of technical ability, lack of strategy for adopting PLG. How do I leverage user data to drive PLG. That's a big one. As far as understanding what's going on within that product, there's identify the right monetization strategy pricing. Pricing is a big one, and the driving conversion through the product org design.
Wes Bush:
Yes, that is often one of the things that we see a lot of companies switch up because their current sales-led traditional structure is bit different than what you would typically see in a ProductLed business. Internal stakeholder alignment, that's a big one. I know from previous cohorts too, when we had something really cool for this, by the way, as a bonus for putting up with all our tech issues today, too, that I think you're going to love that we'll help you get more buy-in for this. All right. Getting user feedback, internal company mindsets, PAT execution, and just feel free. I know I'm reviewing some of these but if you have any more challenges continue to add them to this beautiful, colorful Product-Led challenge board. Is looking fantastic. And I hope if you take a minute, I mean, the last little minute you can go through and review what some other people have put together.
Wes Bush:
What you're going to find is that a lot of these challenges are not unique to you. We're all facing these particular challenges. So it's going to build some relatability as you see. You're not the only one that is going through these specific challenges. This is good, on choosing the most effective onboarding strategy. That is, onboarding is one of those interesting things that sneaks up on you. A lot of people don't realize that in order to be ProductLed, you really do need onboarded users, help them expands the value of the product in order to get the most out of it. How to measure PQLs, buyer personas versus user personas, that's a really good one because we're going to touch on that a bit next week, too, as far as relating.
Wes Bush:
What is the difference, what changes when you are really targeting users versus just buyers. All right. So for the last minute, just feel free to review what other people have on this board. I want everyone to try and just see what are other people struggling with as far as this challenge relates. And does that line up with some of the challenges that you're facing as part of this big transition as a business. Ramli, any challenges that you're seeing that really stick out to you?
Ramli John:
Yes. I mean, I hope I'm pronouncing her name Elisa from predictive index, said, deciding between buyer persona and user persona. And that's a really interesting one because especially for ProductLed and your targeting business. Often your end user is not the same as your buyer, the decision maker. So that creates multiple, multiple user personas. So buyer personas, that you have to think about.
Wes Bush:
Awesome. So I'm just going to stop the timer here. If you do want to come back to this afterwards as well, feel free to go forward with it and you have access to all of it. There we go, time's up. But one of the things I wanted to do before we wrap up here is, Ramli and I were talking about just this whole transition that it takes to go from sales-led to ProductLed ends. One of the big challenges that we saw in that board quite a bit was whether it was called stakeholder alignment, whether it's called getting buy-in or just getting more of your team really learning about Product-Led Growth in that ProductLed mindset. So one of the extra bonuses that we wanted to give everyone here, so that you're going to be more successful is we're actually putting together this free intro to Product-Led Growth fundamentals session.
Wes Bush:
And so it's going to be about an hour it's on Friday, May 7th at 12:00 PM EST. It'll be added to your calendar automatically if you have subscribed to the calendar invite for this program. And so what we are going to recommend you do is share that Luma link at the bottom with as many people as possible on your team, who you think really do need to learn about Product-Led Growth. And so this is going to be really fun. We're going to use Zoom so there's no tech issues best to share. It will be less of a cluster like we had today and it's going to be fun. But the main thing we're going to really try and accomplish in that particular session together is that's everyone needs to be bought into Product-Led growth to really build a successful product in that organization.
Wes Bush:
So it really does take a whole team to make it work. So that's really your first assignment, is try and get as many people as possible who will be interested in Product-Led Growth or even if they're not that's okay too. But we really want you to bring your team along for this journey because it takes a team to build a ProductLed business at the end of the day. So thank you everyone for putting up with our tech difficulties at the beginning, you have been awesome and super understanding. So I really appreciate that. And at the end we just have a couple of minutes left but we love staying at the ends to answer any questions you have. This could be about Product-Led Growth, this could just be about the program itself but we're here for you and your success is ultimately our success.
Wes Bush:
So we are going to stay for as long as it takes to answer your questions. So with that in mind, thank you so much for showing up, bringing your energy, enjoying your time, adding your questions in the chats, as well as participating in Miro. We hope you found this first kickoff session fun. You got to meet some of each other and we are going to stay here for questions. So I guess to tee it off, feel free to ask your questions in the chat or like Andrea was doing earlier too. If you just want to unmute yourself and ask a question that is totally fine too. We want to keep this interactive as well. And Makaela, thank you. I'm glad to hear you had a good session and Sam. Yes. Ramli, you want to answer that hot question?
Ramli John:
Yes. I mean, sure. I made this for myself because I collect snapback hats but if anybody wants one, send me an email. I'll ship one to you. Custom made only one for folks.
Wes Bush:
Awesome. Devin, that's okay if you have to drop for another call, it was great to have you. Thank you so much, everyone for showing up. If you do have to jump too that's totally fine but if you want to stay for a bit we are here to answer any questions you have. Thank you.
Ramli John:
And Nick just asks, will the future sessions be more prescriptive? Each 100%. This one was just for you to get to know the other people was a kickoff. Just so we're all on the same page, next week we'll go through a framework to figure out what the ProductLed model free trial versus Freemium. And that one will be very, very, more prescriptive, so to speak Nick. So that answer your question?
Nick:
Yes.
Wes Bush:
And I think I mentioned it. I'm not sure if people heard it and maybe I was in the butter room but I mentioned just the way we're teaching is a bit different. So you have the on-demand lessons that you can go through. That's more of the lecture style goes through the content. And then what we want to do in these specific live calls is just do the workshop on them. So you get to actually apply it to your specific business. There will be more breakout rooms where you get to go through with other colleagues and ask those questions. So that's how it's structured. So whenever you're here, it's really going to be more engaging versus just lecture content. Ramli, do you want to send them, I wanted to link to the video we're actually to talk we're doing for everyone's teams.
Ramli John:
Yes. Dan's asking through this chat about when we'll get the materials. I'll send that out tomorrow with this recording. So every Friday I'll send out what you need to know for the next week. So, yeah. Okie is asking if I can get the copy of your new book. If anybody wants a digital beta copy of the new book that I've written Eureka, I can send the link over but we'd be happy to ship a physical copy as well too, to everybody.
Wes Bush:
Yes. That's coming out in June, it's going to be fun. It's the next step to, if you are more focused on the sales that the ProductLed transition. I would recommend starting with the book on product-Led growth and obviously in this program that we're going to go through a lot of that as well. But the product that onboarding for what's remedies covering in Eureka, that book is like, if you do have a product that motion you want to really scale it to the next level is really great to go through that from an onboarding perspective too, just to give you clarity if you're already overwhelmed with lots of contents. Don't want to throw too much at you all at once and drown you in content. Cool. And if anyone has any other questions, feel free to just add them to the chat or jump up and unmute yourself, we're happy to chat with you too. We don't bite.
Speaker 1:
I can ask you a quick question.
Wes Bush:
Yes. Go for it.
Speaker 1:
Which is the talks or guest speakers are you most looking forward to having on?
Wes Bush:
Yes. Ramli, you want to answer that one?
Ramli John:
I got Kyle Poyar from OpenView. He's been writing a lot about pricing and that guy's smart dude. If you don't follow him on LinkedIn already, Kyle Poyar or I hope I'm pronouncing his name right. But yeah, he's been doing a lot of research on pricing and I think that's two weeks from all. Next week we have Mickey Alon from Gainsight, they've been a big, big proponent of, somebody is asking how do you spell his name. Can you drop in, his name?
Wes Bush:
Yes.
Ramli John:
Next week we have Mickey Alon. He is from Gainsight and they've been a big Product-Led Growth proponent from the beginning. So I know that's huge.
Wes Bush:
Yes. Mick is a really great guy too. Super down to earth and we'll dig into the little bit more about product strategy as well. So that'd be great. Yes. And Doula, I saw you asked how we get this session recorded. Yes. So it will be recorded. We will send that to you tomorrow. And one of the things too is you can also find it within the course dashboard. So if you go to the dashboard and you'll see the April 20, 21 cohort, it will be there under week one. And so you can just access all that content there after too. So you will have access to it very shortly. Awesome. And if there's no more questions for the next little bit we're going to hop off. But if you want to jump in, then feel free to ask any other questions we're here for,
Ramli John:
Or just unmute yourself. I know there's a bunch of chat I'll follow up by Slack after to answer your questions. But this is cool. You can unmute yourself, you can chat with Wes, myself directly if you want. Thank you.
Costas:
Is there any, sorry guys. Is there any thoughts of having some mastermind or, I don't know for CEOs who are in the same spot growth meters product or is it the breakout sessions are great, but just in between these meetings, but more synergy between like-minded people.
Wes Bush:
Totally. And so for the last chord actually, we did it at the beginning where we had people go through a specific mastermind. One of the feedback we got there was people were just overwhelmed. It's like there was the live expert session, then there was the live class and all the content and actually applying it. And so, one of the things we wanted to do a bit differently this time around, this is going to be announced at the end, but is connecting you with that mastermind group at the end. So you have more of an implementation mastermind after the facts because let's face it, building a product of business it's not a six week endeavor.
Wes Bush:
You can really get a ton of content and really apply some of these things. But for instance, monetization strategy, that stuff actually takes a long time to do the research and really do it and vet it right. So we want to make sure you have a regular pulse of going through this content at the end. So, yes. Since you stayed until the end and asked that question, everyone here has the preview of that but that's something we're excited to test out this time round. To really connect you with the right people to have that. So thanks for the question Costas.
Costas:
Thank you.
Wes Bush:
Louis, you're asking the hard hitting questions. So what question do you wish you got today but didn't. Ramli, which one?
Ramli John:
You're putting me on a spot. I can't think of one. My mind is a little mushed out right now.
Wes Bush:
Yes, that's okay. I don't know, it's one of those ones where I think there's a lot of, okay. The one that first came to mind is just how long this takes to actually make the transition. I think it's important to set the expectation that this will most likely to successive, make that transition from sales that are ProductLed. It could be a year, it could be many years. And it's also one of those things that it never ends. And you should always be aspiring to continue to up level how you're building product a that business. So I think that expectation is something that I just wanted to set as far as that, because it can take longer especially if you are a bigger company, if you're a smaller, great. You can move quick. I always liked the the boat analogy.
Wes Bush:
If you're a smaller business you're like a jet ski. You can move quick, you can churn fast as fun, as quick. But if you're a bigger company, let's say a thousand plus people or something like that you're basically a cruise ship but it's going to take you a while to turn that cruise ship around and really get rowing in that direction. But when you do and you finally start moving in that direction, you can move like it's really fast pace in that particular direction because you just have so many more resources you can dedicate towards it. So, yeah. Great question Louis.
Adam:
I've got another one that's maybe tricky to answer in this environment but if you were just starting out, have you got a prescribe the best practice order to tackle things in?
Wes Bush:
Okay. Yes, so if you're just starting, well, one of the things that we did for, I can actually share the Miro board, the way we broke it down for the next five weeks, that's actually the ideal way you can go through it. So for instance, you want to start with designing your product that I showed you, that's where you want to start. Understands what is the game you're playing as a business, we're going to cover that next week. But then the next part is when you understand how you want to play the game of business in your particular space, then beyond that, how do you really understand your user. What does that look like, what does user success look like and that's going to help you understand how do you monetize that. Because ideally if you understand user success really well, for instance I'll give you an example, Stripe.
Wes Bush:
So Stripe has understood that their end user success is when people make money. So it's great. They make money, they make money, Stripe makes money. So their monetization strategy is actually a part of this, it's seamless. You can start with Stripe very easily and then they only make money when you make money. And then beyond that, it's like, okay, how do we get people to go through this product and set it up faster. That's really all about setting up the right onboarding strategy so you can accelerate that, get more people to experience that value, more people to really realize that value. And then it's just about how you really expand this beyond just the onboarding, just the product and into everyone else. So, great question. Did that help answer it Adam?
Adam:
Yes, definitely. And I was thinking as well, you want to make sure before you even get into that stuff, that the product is well-suited right. You need the right feature set that's going to get people to value quickly and then supplementing with onboarding.
Wes Bush:
Yes. And I'm so happy. You mentioned that too, because one of the things that I think is easy to approach this with is like, let's say your main product. And if you're a multi-product company, you have more choices but if it's your main product and you're like, okay, this thing is working, like why, why, can I disrupt it, it's going to be a bit harder to really roll this out because you might be up against like, Hey, things have always been working, why would we change this. There might be a bit more resistance internally as a team but there is a couple other ways we're going to go through in the next workshop to go through and think about, there is other ways, there is launching, starting with, for instance, a more marketing centric product that uses the product but it might just give a piece of it.
Wes Bush:
I'll give you an example with hrefs, they have a domain authority checker. It's a part of their product but it drives a ton of traffic to their business because what people want to know their domain authority. And so they just simply put in their year out and they're able to see a little bit about what the product can do. So there's lots of ways around it. But you mentioned the important piece there, which is, you really have to have something that has a faster time to value. If you don't have that there's ways around it. I'm just giving the ideal scenario.
Adam:
Yes. Awesome. Thanks.
Wes Bush:
No worries. Okay, Louis thanks for putting on another question in the chat. Are there any companies, industries problem areas that aren't good candidates for Product-Led Growth? Such a good question. So there is ones where I think it'd be really hard that's for sure. If you're a big pharmaceutical company or something like that, let's say there are certain approvals you need to go ahead and actually use those products. There is going to be some barriers like that, where it's like, Hey, like how could that ever work. People do need to get these approvals. So in that trial experience with something like that it might just be more like, Hey, here is like super easy to see demo or something like that where you could go through and actually see the product to a certain degree.
Wes Bush:
I'll give you another example too. So Ramli and I were chatting with the former VP of marketing at Amplitude and so Amplitude, if you haven't heard of them, you should at least check them out. They're good at product analytics tool. And so one of the things that's they had a challenge with is they were targeting product managers or Product Folks and product folks had a really tough barrier, tough time setting up Amplitude because while they weren't very technical and so they had to go through and really, they weren't sure how to set it up. Then oftentimes if they're a bigger company they would have to work with their engineering team to set it up. And then their engineering team would be like, if they're a bigger public company, let's say they might have to wait a couple of quarters before they get something like this out.
Wes Bush:
And so they're just looking at this like really long time to value. And so what they decided is, you know what, just because product people, honestly, they want to see what this product will look like, how can work gets at least understand 80% of what this tool can do, maybe not for their numbers specifically but they had a Sandbox trial where you could go through the products see what it's all about. And I think in some cases like that, that can be a really good step in the right direction of being more product loaded without fully being like, okay, we can let you use the product, but at the same time there's mixed panel. And they totally lean into just having a really great product that model which is a great Freemium model too. So there's different ways of approaching it. In any way, there's no right or wrong but just wanted to point that out because yes, there is totally some industries or companies where it could be harder but I'm always of the minds that just means there's a creative way to do it.
Wes Bush:
You can be the first, you could really leverage that to your advantage. So with anything there's a lot of thinking that goes into it but it can make a huge difference for your business. So thanks for the question Louis. All right. Doula. So how to influence my whole team, that being ProductLed will make an impact for each one. So yes, as far as Dev design and all those other teams, so we're actually going to cover a good chunk of that in the like intro to PLG that you can invite your team to. So I'm going to go through, okay, if you're a marketing team, if you're a sales team, here's what you're going to think differently as far as building a ProductLed that business.
Wes Bush:
And so I could go pretty deep into it now but I think that session will be really, really helpful for them if you just invite them, there's no [inaudible 00:23:02] on that whatsoever. It's just us trying to help you get them on board. And I'll go through some of those examples too, as far as what that would work like so awesome. I see a few people had to jump, but no, I am excited for this. Thank you for sticking around. And does anyone else have any questions they want to jump in? Jenelle, love to talk about the Sandbox trial idea next week. Yes. We will dig into it. I'm excited for that workshop. It's going to be good. Cool. Pesco saw you unmute yourself.
Pesco:
Yes. I have a question for you Wes. First, thank you for this nice session. So as you quitely know, I'm a growth second near thing that we are building, a gold platform. And for me as the growth occurred, the combination is traffic generation and product development which means quitely ProductLeds. And for me, it's very interesting to know, are we discussing in this certification program also about driving massive traffic and strategies because the requirement for getting Product-Led Growth is that a user has a registration on your product. So for me, it would be important to know if we are discussing about some traffic generation strategies behind that because it's the requirement to get a registration on a free trial or a Freeman version as a user.
Wes Bush:
So we definitely don't cover, here's how to do Facebook campaigns and it's not at all those other areas because we feel like there's a lot of other kind of leaders out there who really could do a much better job of covering that specific piece. But what I will share with you is we're going to get you to think a bit different as far as what that product could look like. One of the examples that I love sharing it's convertkit.com. And so we interviewed their founder. I think it was six months ago on the ProductLed summit. And so basically what they thought about doing is for instance, they have an email marketing tool, so they help you send lots of emails to your list. And they thought about, what does someone need to do to build a list?
Wes Bush:
So one of the main things is, well, you probably need a landing page. So you've got to build a page in order to really get successful with our products. So what they started thinking is, well, you know what, could we write 1,000 blog posts on landing pages? The answer is yes, they could totally do that. They get totally become the number one person who ranks for landing pages and really help people make better landing pages so they can build a better list. So they really identified that. But what they did that was super interesting. They still wrote content about it but they really thought 10X, they thought about, hey, what if we built a landing page tool that was completely free, completely free. We could just have the templates. People could get set up easily with their landing page tool.
Wes Bush:
And so they thought about that and said, you know what, this is a huge untapped opportunity. The landing page software space is massive, but we don't have to make money there because we already have our cash cow product is over here, it's the email marketing tool. So let's just go into this market with a landing page tool that's basically doing the lead gen for us. And so that was one way they developed massive amount of users. They help them really experience the value of the product very quickly. And it wasn't just writing a bunch of blog posts on landing pages. They really thought about what would be more helpful if we could actually give them a landing page or does write about it and give them best practices. So I don't know if that specifically answers your question but that's what we're going to go through is, some different ways that you could think about your product even from a marketing lens or a sales lens to help you grow your business.
Pesco:
Definitely. Thank you.
Wes Bush:
No worries. And I saw someone raise their hands, but it didn't show me. That was you.
Speaker 2:
Yes, it was me. So it was very interesting. And I'm just thinking that it means that Product-Led Growth strategy just applied for the mass market. Because for example, we working in B2B business and I would say in the German market and some of the German clients, they like to have personalized approach. How in this way, I mean, we can apply the Product-Led Growth strategy.
Wes Bush:
So if I understand correctly to clarify the question, is it the users that are coming to your product and that are like, hey, we want something more personalized as far as how does that,
Speaker 2:
No. It's not about the product. It's just about the approach because when the sales team talking to the big clients, probably, I don't know, head of the marketing departments since we working in this field, they get the feeling like personalized approach and the feeling that the approach is really individualized and the product is the same but I would say the connection between us and the client are different. And since you go in mass market, this feeling of their individualized approach will be lost then, I mean, there's some problem like strategies in the whole strategy of the Product-Led Growth where you can say, okay, I mean, for this specific client, you can do a bit different or something like this.
Wes Bush:
I see. So that is a great question because a lot of people when you're making that transition they'll think, hey, we are losing out on a lot of that personalized touch. And that can be the case in some instances, I wouldn't necessarily recommend going complete culture and being like, hey, it's completely self-service for everyone right away because you probably do have go-to-market motion that's working for your business right now. So there's a couple of ways you could approach it. One of the ones that I've seen a lot of companies do even from previous alumni as well as more of like I choose your own adventure kind of strategy as far as, hey, someone ends up for your product. You could jump on a demo and go through something personalized if that's what you want. But then you could also just go into the product and see for yourself.
Wes Bush:
And so what I would recommend you to think about as far as applying, becoming more ProductLed and taking a step in that direction is, the more you tune into those sales conversation the better. Like, if you could start asking them, what is the main goal you're hoping to get out of this product? After a while of like asking that question, you're going to realize there might actually be just a few buckets like, hey, people yes they want personalized, but they want to these three problems really well. So if we could in our self-serve experience get them to do that with the product very easily, that would help them be more successful. And it wouldn't feel like we're being completely unpersonalized whatsoever. We just help them get that to that point of the product without any hand-holding. So does that help answer your question?
Speaker 2:
Somehow yes, but I would like to have through the course because now the first week just probably I will ask this question once again. I think this combination for me it's not clear especially for my company where we have to be personalized and customer focused still and what we can automize now so but somehow it's clear. Thank you.
Wes Bush:
Awesome. And throughout the course too if that isn't completely clear by end too, there's the direct consulting line as well too, also feel free to pin myself or our brand, they're on Slack. And we'll help you get to the bottom of that because I want to see how you're thinking through, how you're applying that. And we're both super happy to help you out. And that goes to everyone too. Cool. David. Yes. See you next week in chat and slack in the meantime, we'll do. And does anyone else have any particular questions they wanted to dig into? I see some NOs that's okay. If you think of anything in the meantime, feel free to ask us on Slack or the direct consulting line. And for now, I am looking forward to seeing everyone next week and thank you again for showing up and staying until the very end. This has been great.
Ramli John:
Thanks a lot.
Speaker 2:
Bye-bye guys.
Wes Bush:
Bye-bye.
